Router settings and 8125 wifi

[Curious D]

Hi. I just did a hard reset on my 8125 (only after three days of ownership) and I still couldn't get my wifi to work at home. I tried all the tricks that I have read so far on this and other forums and still couldn't get it to work. So I went on the premise that the phone wasn't the problem, but maybe my security setting on my router.

I shut down all security settings and found that the phone was able to link to the router without any problems. Good. But now I'm faced with a problem in that I do not want to bring down my security any further than its current setting since WEP is no longer considered an adequate security setting.

Currently, I have WPA/WPA2-PSK authentication with TKIP/AES encryption. I have both settings for a Win98SE desktop that can only function on WPA + TKIP. My passphrase is 63 characters long. The phone will recognize that there is a WPA + TKIP security setting, but I can not get an IP address even when I put in the right passphrase. When I assign an IP address, it still won't connect.

Has anyone been able to get wifi connection with router settings similar to my router settings? If so, how did you manage to do so without compromising security?

Thanks.

[superstatz]

Curious D, don't know if you saw my post in the last thread, but I'm having similar problems too.

I've concluded nothing is wrong with the security. I've even disabled security and still no luck.

I'm able to connect to someone else's wifi, so I know the answer is simply what's different between my connection and that someone else's. Too bad I don't know whose signal that is.

Now my old ISP account comes with a static IP address, which is not the norm these days, so I'm wondering if it has something to do with that -- purely guessing that the other guy's wifi I can connect to has an ISP account which dynamically assigns IP addresses.

I too have tried every combination of entries possible on the 8125.

So I'm dying to know: is your ISP account with a static IP or dynamic? Thanks!

[Curious D]

I would imagine that my account is a static account or acts like one since my router keeps me online all the time. I don't have to sign in at any time since my router already does it for me.

I'm afraid I really don't know and the above is just a guess.

[superstatz]

Yeah, I've been learning a lot about all this stuff just trying to figure stuff out too.

As far as figuring out static vs dynamic, you can probably go to your router's settings. There's an option when you setup the router to use a static IP or get it dynamically from your ISP. I believe the majority of ISP accounts today get their IP addresses dynamically.

However, I think that might not be the source of my problem (or yours). The more I read up about wifi, IP, DHCP, et. al., the more it seems the most common generic wifi problem, be it with 8125's or laptops connecting to a wireless router, is simply the router assigning the device a proper IP address and how that IP address relates to all other IP addresses.

So check your router settings for any hints of how it might not be assigning your 8125 a proper IP address. Other devices using your router could also present an IP address conflict.

I'll report back on my progress.

[Curious D]

I think you are right. I think my setting is dynamic given by my ISP. I tried to put my phone on a static IP address and then place that address in the DMZ, but when I did that, it connected for a moment and then went back to the previous problem of trying to connect. I looked at my DHCP client list on the LAN settings and it has only one computer on the list. It lists my phone oddly enough with the IP address of my laptop (my router automatically assigns computers so I fixed all my computers' IP addresses). So when I fix the IP address to the address seen on the DHCP client list, that's when I got that momentary connection. However, it was quickly lost. When I restore the phone setting to server-assigned IP address (on the SDIO WLAN Wireless Adapter on the phone), I see some weird IP address that doesn't correspond to my router settings (example: ef90::210:5gee:eid). Very strange. If that means anything to someone, please let me know.

I'm at a lost why my router can not assign this phone an appropiate IP address or if it can, why my phone can not process it.

[manperez]

Hi, guys! First of all, let me clarify that there are a few IP addresses your LAN has:
first, the IP address (static or dynamic) of your connection to Internet, which is where your modem (cable, phone or DSL) connects to.
Second, your modem's IP address, which your router connects to....
Third, your router's IP address, which the PPC or PC connects to,
and finally, your PC's or PPC's address, which the router sents info to.

Sometimes, the modem uses the same IP address as the dynamic or static address you've been assigned...

Now as to why we can or cannot connect, well it is kind of complex because of all the different settings. To this I simply say: if your PPC can connect to anyone else, you know that your PPC is OK... If your PPC can't even detect and connect to the Starbucks T-Mobile sign in page.... then you've got problems at your end.

Sometimes the problem is in the router... my home WiFi router, for example, gets hung up every so often.... it works OK after a reset, but at least once a week my family complains that "The Internet is down"... I suspect that my wife's Mac Ibook is the culprit, since it also hangs my print server, but my wife insists that she is innocent!

Take care................ Manny

[superstatz]

Curious_D, I got my wifi to work. Turns out it was my router, indeed, as I have posted elsewhere. I have a Netgear MR814 v2 and there was a newer firmware version available.

BEFORE I ADD OTHER INFO, HERE ARE SOME ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS...

I think you are right. I think my setting is dynamic given by my ISP. I tried to put my phone on a static IP address and then place that address in the DMZ, but when I did that, it connected for a moment and then went back to the previous problem of trying to connect.

YEAH, NEVERMIND THE STATIC VS DYNAMIC THEORY. I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND CHANGING YOUR SETUP.

I looked at my DHCP client list on the LAN settings and it has only one computer on the list. It lists my phone oddly enough with the IP address of my laptop (my router automatically assigns computers so I fixed all my computers' IP addresses). So when I fix the IP address to the address seen on the DHCP client list, that's when I got that momentary connection. However, it was quickly lost.

I TRIED THIS TOO, USING THE MAC ADDRESS OF EACH DEVICE INCLUDING THAT OF THE 8125 AND SETTING MY ROUTER TO ASSIGN A SPECIFIC IP ADDRESS. THAT DIDN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM AND NOW THAT WIFI WORKS, I SUSPECT THAT IS IRRELEVANT.

When I restore the phone setting to server-assigned IP address (on the SDIO WLAN Wireless Adapter on the phone), I see some weird IP address that doesn't correspond to my router settings (example: ef90::210:5gee:eid). Very strange. If that means anything to someone, please let me know.

YES, I SEE THIS SAME THING. SINCE MY WIFI IS WORKING, IT'S PROBABLY NOT RELEVANT. IF YOUR USUAL SETUP WITH YOUR LAPTOP IS TO AUTO-OBTAIN THE IP AND DNS, GO AHEAD AND CLICK THOSE SAME OPTIONS IN NETWORK CARD SETTINGS IN WINDOWS MOBILE.

I'm at a lost why my router can not assign this phone an appropiate IP address or if it can, why my phone can not process it.

WELL, THE GOOD NEWS IS, YOU SAID IT ASSIGNED AN IP ADDRESS TO YOUR "PHONE" (WHICH I ASSUME IS YOUR 8125).

I know my router assigns IP addrs in sequence, so do not be alarmed when you got your phone to have the same IP address as that of your laptop -- assuming your laptop's wireless was off at the time.

The bottom line is, aside from setting up the Network Card settings to be consistent with that of your laptop, try to get a connection at some other free hotspot, or go over to your neighbor's and see if you can connect.

Also, try to diagnose if it's more a problem with the router or the network card settings. I was able to sense it was a router problem because when you hold-click and connect on your SSID on the Wireless tab, you can close out of that window and go back to the Wireless LAN screen and see that the adapter is picking up your SSID.

Then you go back to the Wireless tab and see that your SSID has become unavailable. That sort of tells you a connection was almost made, but couldn't get there 100%.

Be sure to thoroughly google your router and possible compatibility issues. Worse case, connect to someone else's wifi with your 8125 then buy that exact same model. Chances are your laptop's adapter is more compatible with various routers than the SDIO.

Any other questions, let me know. I tried everything. Became a registry hack expert in the process. It's a good thing it was the router because I would have gone insane if it was not.

[Curious D]

I'm figuring it is the router as well. I walked down the street and connected to someone's router that had no security (just to test my phone since I don't wardrive). It connected. Same as with my router when I disable all security settings. I am not sure why my security setting is causing the inability to connect. I like my router as it is a Pre-N and can reach all parts of my home. Chances are, I'll keep my router since I can use my laptop to connect to the internet at home anyway. Thanks. If anyone has any ideas on how I can connect a Belkin MIMO Pre-N (second generation) router to the 8125, please let me know. Thanks again.

[superstatz]

Well, glad to hear that you are connecting at least without using security keys.

One workaround, which I think is probably more secure than any security key you can invoke, is to set your router to accept only the MAC addresses of certain devices.

In fact, not quite sure if there's a downside to this, unless you were a big office and had maybe more than 100 co-workers who needed to connect wirelessly, and you had a fair amount of turnover in workers or devices.

[Curious D]

Thanks for the advice. However, from all the reading I have done on wireless security, MAC filtering and elimination of SSID broadcasting do not provide the level of security that a long security passphrase (ie a random 63 character passphrase) and WPA2 can provide. Even WPA has been hacked (albeit with great difficulty). While MAC filtering, WEP, and SSID hiding will keep out most people who really aren't into war driving, it won't keep those who purposefully war drive. Tom's Hardware has published an article on how one can hack into WEP with programs readily available on the net. It cites how the FBI was able to hack into WEP within three minutes with such programs. That's why I am unwilling to lower my security to access the net from my phone when I have a laptop that can access the net on my current setting.

I just wish I knew how to access the internet from my phone with the current security setting I have.

[manperez]

Hey Curious D, you are right, but if a hacker gets you in his sights, I'm sure you are in severe trouble. In general, most of us are using the "sparrow" defensive strategy: when a hawk appears we all fly all over the place, and the hawk gets confused.

Security is so kids and fools don't bother you... if you have WiFi you are sending your info into the air and anyone who is an expert will be able to break your codes and other security methods. Just like with your cell phone... But if you have nothing to hide, and you turn off your computers regularly, and check for viruses and spybots, and unusual behaviour... well, I'd think you are pretty safe...

My brother decided to be fully secure, so he hardwired Ethernet throughout his house, and uses a landline for Internet connections....
Me? I prefer broadband and the comfort of WiFi... Yes, I also kiss on the first date! LOL

Good luck!

[superstatz]

Not only do I tend to agree with manny, but also my layman's point of view leads me to believe that specifying your devices' MAC addresses is a better practical/human means of security against war drivers than any WEP or "ultra" WEP key (what do they call the new one, WKA or something?).

I just don't see how it's possible for someone to fake an existing MAC address that's specific to your laptop, specific to your 8125, or specific to any other device on your router's list of acceptable devices.

To do that, an intruder would not only need software expertise, but also hardware expertise. They'd have to hope your MAC addr isn't already being used, otherwise you might be able to tell that something fishy's going on -- I wonder what routers do if they get 2 devices claiming to have the same MAC addr?

Also, an intruder can't ramp up the intrusion because only so many devices have access, whereas once your WEP is cracked, any number of devices transmitting your WEP gets access to your wifi. My conclusion is that WEP is a software-only issue and thus the sky's the limit in a worst-case scenario. I'm not so sure the sky's the limit in the worst-case scenario for MAC security breach.

But what do I know.

However, you definitely should have some kind of basic security in place, if nothing else because as with my Netgear router, there's usually a default DHCP server (192.168.0.1 for Netgear) and there's also a default login and password when you open the box; the average Joe does not bother to change the login/pwd.

In fact, at one point in my problem-solving, I accidentally got access to a neighbor's router (we have very similar SSIDs) who had no WEP in place and obviously neither of us had bothered to change our login/pwds to access 192.168.0.1. I actually ended up changing his router's settings but luckily I figured out what was happening and changed his back.

Anyways, for your particular situation, perhaps the SDIO adapter does not have the same options for security on your router as you have been using for your laptop? Maybe that's why it only works when WEP is off.

I recommend just ridding yourself of security keys and using your router's list of acceptable device MAC addresses, since you know you can connect without WEP keys invoked. Then you don't have to worry about security key compatibility between 8125 and router.

I'm actually using MAC id's instead of WEP only because I'm sick and tired of typing in the long, long string of hex, esp. on the 8125's tiny little onscreen keypad -- and MAC adds that element of hardware obstacle. Practically speaking, think if you had to do a hard reset on the 8125, then you gotta type that sucker in again. Not so when utilizing MAC addrs.

[Curious D]

I respectfully disagree about passphrases and MAC filtering. MAC addresses can be retrieved and cloned easier than obtaining passphrases. I found a forum thread discussing MAC filtering from two years ago. I am unable to provide the link for some reason (when I post, it says something about an invalid link). I found it just by Googling the terms.

Back then, WEP was considered good security. I don't bring this up to belabor a point made earlier, but I believe it is important to those who do wish to keep their networks relatively safer to know that MAC filtering, SSID non-broadcast isn't considered adequate protection of the home network. Even a WEP 128 bit key is considered inadequate nowadays. WPA with a strong passphrase is considered much more difficult to hack and for most people should be sufficient. WPA2 with AES encryption is the highest level of security (outside of shutting off your computer or keeping it off the internet) available to the consumer, but not enough for enterprise security. Remember that a 63 character passphrase means the likelihood of someone guessing your passphrase at greater than 1 in 46E63 (depending on if it is case sensitive or incorporate other non-keyboard characters).

In the end, if someone wants in, someone will get in. One can choose a screen door, security door, or security door with a few deadbolts not because it will keep the thieves out, but make it harder for the thieves to get in.

I spent alot of time trying to find the wording to this reply because I didn't want to appear argumentative or authoratative on the subject. Especially to someone who is trying to help me solve my 8125 problem. I am not expert on this (that much is clear as I am having so much trouble hooking up my phone to my network). I have read enough, however, to know that by relying on MAC filtering, one leaves one's network more vulnerable to attack.