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View Poll Results: Is Stealing WiFi Ok?
Yes 3 17.65%
No 4 23.53%
Sometimes 3 17.65%
Its not stealing its borrowing 3 17.65%
I married my wifi years ago. Nobody should steal her 4 23.53%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 02-26-2005, 01:24 PM
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Is Stealing WiFi Ok?

How To Steal Wi-Fi

Quote:
When I moved into a new neighborhood last week, I expected the usual hassles. Then I found out I'd have to wait more than a month for a DSL line. I started convulsing. If I don't have Net access for even one day, I can't do my job. So, what was I supposed to do? There's an Internet café on the next block, but they close early. I had no choice—it was time to start sneaking on to my neighbors' home networks.
Every techie I know says that you shouldn't use other people's networks without permission. Every techie I know does it anyway. If you're going to steal—no, let's say borrow—your neighbor's Wi-Fi access, you might as well do it right. Step one: Lose the guilt. The FCC told me that they don't know of any federal or state laws that make it illegal to log on to an open network. Using someone's connection to check your e-mail isn't like hacking into their bank account. It's more like you're borrowing a cup of sugar. (Unless you hog their bandwidth by watching lots of streaming video—that's like hijacking a sugar truck.)
I live in an apartment and share WiFi with my roommate and some friends in the apartment across the hall. My buddy pays the Internet hookup bills and in exchange he gets free beer. I can ping another neighbor's router and sometimes connect to it when I am out in the front of the building because of better reception. Is this stealing? When is it ok to steal/borrow WiFi?
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2005, 12:09 PM
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As they say in poker, it's a crime to let the sucker keep his money. If you have wireless - protect it. If you dont protect it people will use it. Pure and simple.
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2005, 12:22 PM
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Not only is having a wireless network risky, but even just using an unsecure network is very risky. Not only can a wireless hacker easily intercept any emails you send but If the network is unsecure, login passwords for websites are sent via a plain-text message from your computer/PDA to your router. These passwords are easy prey for anyone who wants to "sniff" your network.
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Old 02-28-2005, 02:24 PM
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This is more of a personal moral ethics question.
Obviously, those who have no conscience, who steal cable, hide $$ from the government, fudge their taxes, fake their hours at work, take more packets of ketchup, sugar, or nutrasweet from restaurants than they'll ever need, will have no feelings of guilt or uneasiness in "STEALING" wifi.
However, it is, in fact, stealing, and that, in any free, self-respecting, and morally concious society is downright wrong.
To state that stealing wifi is OK is akin to stating the guy who left his front door unlocked personally invited the burglars into his house!!! In this scenario, the burglar is still a criminal, even though the door was unlocked and/or opened.
Besides the damage you can do by hopping onto another person's wifi, you are taking away bandwidth (i.e. downloading), and thus robbing the "owner" of 100% use of his/her connection.
It's ain't right, bottom line.
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2005, 02:26 PM
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Re: Is Stealing WiFi Ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bellamy
I live in an apartment and share WiFi with my roommate and some friends in the apartment across the hall. My buddy pays the Internet hookup bills and in exchange he gets free beer. I can ping another neighbor's router and sometimes connect to it when I am out in the front of the building because of better reception. Is this stealing? When is it ok to steal/borrow WiFi?
You can answer that yourself. Would you tell your neighbor that you are using his router? If you won't tell him, then it's stealing. If you tell him, he'll either say "cool, no problem", "that's okay, but I want to make it secure, here is your key", or "whoa I didn't know" (and he locks it down)
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Old 02-28-2005, 03:15 PM
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For a while people left their WiFi open to share with anyone who came along. There were 2 sides to War Chalking. The ones looking for open WiFi and the ones who thought/think sharing is a good thing.
Originally I left mine open. I watched it from time to time to see if there were any takers but never found any evidence. Now I have it closed. It's off when not being used, and I've set up encryption. Why the change of heart. There are too many jerks out there who are trying to destroy anything they touch. I don't want to give them any more opportunities than I have to. It's sad really, to go from sharing to building fortification.
So, it's not stealing if it is given freely. And how is anyone to know if you don't lock it up.
Bill B.
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2005, 05:10 PM
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Am I a tresspasser too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sracer
You can answer that yourself. Would you tell your neighbor that you are using his router? If you won't tell him, then it's stealing. If you tell him, he'll either say "cool, no problem", "that's okay, but I want to make it secure, here is your key", or "whoa I didn't know" (and he locks it down)
No, but if I lived in a house development, I wouldn't knock on my neighbors door to ask if I could walk on his grass to retrieve my frisbee either. So what? I'm tresspassing right? :P
The wifi signal isn't living up to it's potential just being out there, not being used. I come along and make it live up to it's potential by connecting to it. It's a public service I tell ya! A public service!
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Old 03-01-2005, 10:29 AM
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Re: Am I a tresspasser too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bellamy
Quote:
Originally Posted by sracer
You can answer that yourself. Would you tell your neighbor that you are using his router? If you won't tell him, then it's stealing. If you tell him, he'll either say "cool, no problem", "that's okay, but I want to make it secure, here is your key", or "whoa I didn't know" (and he locks it down)
No, but if I lived in a house development, I wouldn't knock on my neighbors door to ask if I could walk on his grass to retrieve my frisbee either. So what? I'm tresspassing right? :P
So the answer to your question is: YES, you are stealing WiFi.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2005, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemax
So, it's not stealing if it is given freely. And how is anyone to know if you don't lock it up.
Bill B.
How do you know that it is "given freely" unless you ask? Just because it is unencrypted doesn't really mean anything. It is certainly reasonable to think that the person set the router up, had a little difficulty getting it going so disabled encryption to get it to work. (not realizing that anyone within range outside of his/her apartment can get it also)
What I find sad is that the focus is on stealing a WiFi connection rather than helping a neighbor out by letting them know that they may be exposing themselves.
But then again maybe I'm just a throwback to a different time.
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2005, 12:36 PM
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Re: Am I a tresspasser too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sracer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bellamy
Quote:
Originally Posted by sracer
You can answer that yourself. Would you tell your neighbor that you are using his router? If you won't tell him, then it's stealing. If you tell him, he'll either say "cool, no problem", "that's okay, but I want to make it secure, here is your key", or "whoa I didn't know" (and he locks it down)
No, but if I lived in a house development, I wouldn't knock on my neighbors door to ask if I could walk on his grass to retrieve my frisbee either. So what? I'm tresspassing right? :P
So the answer to your question is: YES, you are stealing WiFi.
Stealing implies I am committing a crime. What crime am I committing and what should the punishment be? Should I stand before a judsge and face jail time or pay a fine or something? If I remember reading the LAW correctly. I have a right to listen in on any radio transmission in my vicinity. Since WiFi is a radio transmission in my vicinity, I have a right to hit it. Especially since they didn't lock it down or encrypt it. If it was encrypted, I'd be in trouble because of reverse engineering laws.
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  #11  
Old 03-01-2005, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sracer
What I find sad is that the focus is on stealing a WiFi connection rather than helping a neighbor out by letting them know that they may be exposing themselves.
As a net admin by trade, if I find one open in my neighborhood or in an office I am consulting with, I do tell the person the risks and how they might want to lock it down. Then I send them to my WiFi encryption tips here on the site. Some go to the trouble of protecting themselves some don't. That's what I find is sad.
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2005, 07:37 PM
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Re: Am I a tresspasser too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bellamy
Stealing implies I am committing a crime. What crime am I committing and what should the punishment be? Should I stand before a judsge and face jail time or pay a fine or something? If I remember reading the LAW correctly. I have a right to listen in on any radio transmission in my vicinity. Since WiFi is a radio transmission in my vicinity, I have a right to hit it. Especially since they didn't lock it down or encrypt it. If it was encrypted, I'd be in trouble because of reverse engineering laws.
I hope I got this quote thing right. Please forgive me if it has the wrong name.
Playing the devil's advocate here, I'd hope people here would answer to higher moral values than strictly specified by law. Stealing means taking something that doesn't belong to you when the owner (if you will) doesn't want you to have it. You're right, the LAW probably doesn't specifically state you can't use another person's WiFi. The LAW also allows free reception of radio transmissions. I like the idea of asking the owner if you can use their WiFi. On the other hand, how do you find that person without some specialized and expensive equipment. Waving your WiFi card around doesn't give precise information about the source.
As I said before, there are people who purposely leave their WiFi open to share the resource. So, how are you supposed to know the "owner" doesn't want you to use their WiFi if they don't lock it up.
Bill B.
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