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Over at mobileread.com there is an interesting discussion http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3232 about a thread on aximsite.com http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=67787 where Anton Tomov the creator of Pocket Mechanic http://www.antontomov.com/ has build an anti piracy script into his application. This script will detect the use of an illegal license key and without warning hard reset your Pocket PC.
Whilst I don't condone the use of illegal software should developers use these tactics?
I personally think the use of illegal software is wrong, but also hard resetting someones Pocket PC is also wrong. Do two wrongs make a right?
What if the code incorrectly identifies a genuine license key as an illegal one, and carries out the hard reset.
Personally I think that Anton should use the code to either disable the application, or give the user a 10 minute warning that their device will be hard reset if the application is not uninstalled. What do others think?
Whilst I condone the use of illegal software should developers use these tactics?
I don't think it should be condoned
Life has too many variables and clumsy PPC users. How many times have most of us entered the wrong serial code first time, I know I have many time.
I'm far from impressed with Pocket Mechanic anyway, I had a version ages ago that was buggy and wiped most of the data from my CF card. When I contacted Anton his attitude appeared to be.... oh! well, these things happen.
Too say I was unimpressed is a great understatement.
I haven't touched PM since as there are a couple of more user friendly and reliable apps available.
Once burnt and all that.
__________________ Afterism (n) - A concise, clever statement you don\'t think of until too late.
To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer.
I certainly understand the sentiment behind such a plan but that is not only too extreme to do without warning, he will very likely lose his business to some eager lawyer who gets his PDA incorrectly wiped. This society is far too greedy not to protect your interests but far too litigious to take such extreme measures.
Has anyone verified this is in fact in place in his s/w? This is totally illegal in the US.
__________________ James Kendrick Microsoft MVP - Tablet PCwww.jkontherun.com Lockergnome contributor- Mobile Lifestyle...using mobile devices since they weighed 30 lbs.
Wow, a hard reset? That would be pretty extreme. Hopefully we can get a comment from Anton on what's going on. I wonder where they got the code snippet from.
I've gone "straight to the horse's mouth" so to speak on this. Hopefully, we'll hear something today. As a developer myself, I know piracy is a problem, but on the other hand, having that sort of code lying dormant in a program seems even MORE of a problem. It's hard enough to get things working right on all devices all across the board - without code like this. Then to know in the back of my mind there are "late nights" where you are coding till 2 or 3 am...lots of mistakes can happen at that time. One bad call and BAMMMM... you wipe out your beta group and/or customer base
More importantly once the customer gets leery or loses trust that the developer is going to allow something harmful to happen to your device it's all over.
__________________ James Kendrick Microsoft MVP - Tablet PCwww.jkontherun.com Lockergnome contributor- Mobile Lifestyle...using mobile devices since they weighed 30 lbs.
I agree. A developer going to this extreme would never get my business. If they want to get around piracy, why dont they update their authorization system to the device like TomeRaider does? I dont like it but understand why they do it and its a non-intrusive way. This way its very difficult to pirate as each device wil lgenerate a different code.
I'm no programmer but a user on MobileRead who first reported this has now posted what they are touting as proof that the code is indeed in the program. No one (including me) has heard from Anton about this. My guess is he now realizes he screwed up big time.
__________________ James Kendrick Microsoft MVP - Tablet PCwww.jkontherun.com Lockergnome contributor- Mobile Lifestyle...using mobile devices since they weighed 30 lbs.
I read about the latest version of PM and was all ready to download it but before I did I read on a couple of sites about the hard reset issue. I decided to keep mine at version 1.49 until this is resolved and believe I also read elsewhere that the differences between 1.49 and 1.50 are minimal....well, except for the hard reset option ! I don't want that kind of option available in any program. Unfortunately for the developer, the rumor (or fact) is already public and it will now be extremely difficult to fix the situation and convince people that the code has been removed. If he decides to leave the code in there, I'll be keeping version 1.49 for a long time.
Has anyone verified this is in fact in place in his s/w? This is totally illegal in the US.
The use of a warez is illegal in US too
What are you going to do, sue him because your PPC was hard reseted after you applied or used an illegal copy of his software
Has anyone verified this is in fact in place in his s/w? This is totally illegal in the US.
The use of a warez is illegal in US too
What are you going to do, sue him because your PPC was hard reseted after you applied or used an illegal copy of his software
No, I'm not going to use his s/w if he does that and I'm not going to recommend his s/w either. I'm not singling Anton out with this statement, I'm saying that is how I feel towards any developer who employs such destructive tactics on any platform. This is not the way to deal with piracy.
__________________ James Kendrick Microsoft MVP - Tablet PCwww.jkontherun.com Lockergnome contributor- Mobile Lifestyle...using mobile devices since they weighed 30 lbs.
Since my company develops software we always make the best effort to license all software used by our employees... with that said Hard reset is harsh... I have reloaded computers and PPC numerous times due to testing software and have not always entered the proper licenses for the software ... the software was legal, just during the process of reloading I forget to activitate the software at times.
I have to tell you guys something. There was a copy of Tweaks2k2 with a hard reset procedure distributed in warez sites and P2Ps before I changed the registration procedure. And I have to tell you guys one thing: nobody knows how much cost us developers in time and money to fight against warez. So I donīt see anything wrong when any of us pay pirates with their same weapons.
Has anyone verified this is in fact in place in his s/w? This is totally illegal in the US.
The use of a warez is illegal in US too
What are you going to do, sue him because your PPC was hard reseted after you applied or used an illegal copy of his software
No, I'm not going to use his s/w if he does that and I'm not going to recommend his s/w either. I'm not singling Anton out with this statement, I'm saying that is how I feel towards any developer who employs such destructive tactics on any platform. This is not the way to deal with piracy.
Well my dear friend james, you will be surprise to know how many are doing that or just thinking about that. I have read even a coment from a guy (I wont say his name) that asked all developers to create a group where each program will check for illegal copies of all the rest of the programs from all the developers willing to joing the group and if the program finds and illegal copy deactivate all programs or to do a hard reset.
So, the fight against piracy has been taken to another level due to the fact that laws can not deal with this problem.
In another hand, I don't understand how this can affect people who use legal copies. Why people that use legal copies are making of these news so big deal if that wont affect any legal user?
In another hand, I don't understand how this can affect people who use legal copies. Why people that use legal copies are making of these news so big deal if that wont affect any legal user?
I think one of the concerns especially mine is that if I buy some software and then accidentally enter the license code wrong. Lets say I enter two of the digits round the wrong way, and this is flagged as an illegal license and my device gets reset who's to blame? me for mistyping, or the developer for not warning me? I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but anything is possible.
The funny thing in all this is that everybody is pointing the finger to Anton, and I don't see any one blaming or condemning the guy who used the ilegal copy and got a hard reset as a result. :?
In another hand, I don't understand how this can affect people who use legal copies. Why people that use legal copies are making of these news so big deal if that wont affect any legal user?
I think one of the concerns especially mine is that if I buy some software and then accidentally enter the license code wrong. Lets say I enter two of the digits round the wrong way, and this is flagged as an illegal license and my device gets reset who's to blame? me for mistyping, or the developer for not warning me? I know this is probably unlikely to happen, but anything is possible.
Developers are not stupid guys. I'm sure that Anton's legal keys are not close in any way to the illegal key to avoid that kind of mistake. I'm sure that when he did that he took special interest in do it in a way that never could affect a legal customer. If you read that post from where this news is coming he asked the guy for the order number, and the guy never answered to his question. Clear evidence that he was using an illegal copy, but... all I see now is people condemning Anton and noone condeming that guy. That's why Developers are reacting in those extreme ways. No justice at all, there is nothing that you can do. And believe me I tried to find any way to fight back warez. And the true is one, there is not law that can protect you outside of your country and that's a very well known fact within warez so they are based usually in countries with no laws like China, Ukrania, Russia, and other countries.
No one has condemned the pirate in this thread because this thread is not about the pirate, it's about the practice of putting malicious code in commercial software. We all hate pirates and wish they would go away and stop their illegal practices but consumers have also made it clear that they don't want their systems exposed to unnecessary risks to combat it. We put up with (some gladly and some with grumbling) copy protection, activation, and other similar stuff because we understand that developers need to protect themselves but malicious code is not the way to do that. Every time it comes to light that a developer is doing that consumers have a knee-jerk reaction to it so that should tell you something.
You cannot make yourself judge, jury and executioner and not expect reactions.
__________________ James Kendrick Microsoft MVP - Tablet PCwww.jkontherun.com Lockergnome contributor- Mobile Lifestyle...using mobile devices since they weighed 30 lbs.
This situation is analogous to burning my house down because you think I stole your iPod (or something like that). You just can't do that.
__________________ James Kendrick Microsoft MVP - Tablet PCwww.jkontherun.com Lockergnome contributor- Mobile Lifestyle...using mobile devices since they weighed 30 lbs.
This situation is analogous to burning my house down because you think I stole your iPod (or something like that). You just can't do that.
james, if I think that you stole my iPod I can go to the police, I can do many things without breaking any law. If I found an illegal copy of my program I canīt do anything legal to stop those people from distributing that illegal copy. There is not law or any force that protects me from those stealing from me. Thatīs a big difference. And believe me I went the whole path, contacting the FBI, Microsoft, what ever institution I read of or I thougth could help me to fight against piracy. And after a month of doing so the only thing that I learned is that there is not body to defende me or protect me.
Do you know of any institution that can protect us? Tell me please?
The funny thing, is that if you enter my house to rob me I can kill you without any problem here in USA and nobody will say anything about that action. But if a developer like Anton do something like what he did, that only affects the robber, we all react againt the poor developer.
Sorry James, but I canīt understand you.
That's kind of like saying it's okay to murder someone because they stole your car. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Thatīs the point. Every time that this topic is opened everybody gives examples of cases where there are legal solutions.
I AM ASKING PLEASE, CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHERE TO GO TO ASK FOR PROTECTION. WHO DEFENDS US DEVELOPERS?
I have the anwer. I have looked for that institution and I have contacted all of them. I still waiting to see anyone doing anything against those warez sites distributing illegal copies of my software.
I AM ASKING PLEASE, CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHERE TO GO TO ASK FOR PROTECTION. WHO DEFENDS US DEVELOPERS? .
The BSA...Ok, ok, it's not the greatest, but it's a start.
But this is a cat and mouse game that will never go away. What's best is to develop your registration system and then move on. Every bit of energy spent on hurting a pirate is time wasted. They are hurting themselves by accepting stealing as part of their personality - "to thine own self be true...." and all that. Most people grow out of it...some never do. But the best thing to do is keep doing what you do best. By all means, do your best to protect it, but remember we are creators not destroyers. I would argue that we cannot seek to make the lives of some people better with one hand and make the lives of other people bad (destroy data) with the other and be happy with ourselves.
Just my opinion.
I AM ASKING PLEASE, CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHERE TO GO TO ASK FOR PROTECTION. WHO DEFENDS US DEVELOPERS? .
The BSA...Ok, ok, it's not the greatest, but it's a start.
I have contacted them, I gave them a list of all warez sites distributing illegal copies of my softwares. I still waiting just for a reply back. Those sites distributing the illegal copies still there. I did more, I sent those websites webmasters a copy of my emails to the BSA, Microsoft and other institutions. Those webmasters ignored these emails, and I know they read it.
[But this is a cat and mouse game that will never go away. What's best is to develop your registration system and then move on. Every bit of energy spent on hurting a pirate is time wasted. They are hurting themselves by accepting stealing as part of their personality - "to thine own self be true...." and all that. Most people grow out of it...some never do. But the best thing to do is keep doing what you do best. By all means, do your best to protect it, but remember we are creators not destroyers. I would argue that we cannot seek to make the lives of some people better with one hand and make the lives of other people bad (destroy data) with the other and be happy with ourselves.
Just my opinion.
Sorry Brad, I have been helping this community with all my heart, you know that. But I donīt feel that Anton is a destroyer because he was hard reseting the device of someone stealling his program. To me, he looks more like a guy who heard in the middle of the night somebody stealing inside of his house and he took his gun and killed the robber. At least in Florida AFAIK you have the right to defend your self in that situation. And thatīs what Anton did.
I agree that no everybody will do that but if somebody defends hiself in that way I wont condemn him.
I don't think it should be condoned 
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