Pepsi Syndrome... this bites.

[kamikun]

Hey guys:
So last night I was not practicing "safe docking" (as the kids like to say). In more specific terms, I had an open container of diet coke next to my cradled e800. One uncareful move and @whoop@ there goes diet coke all over the place... including (but probably not limited to) the contacts in the e800 and in the cradle.
No more than a couple of drops could have gotten in there. But that was enough. I immediately cleaned everything as quickly and throughly as possible. Wiped down the leads, dropped a little lens cleaner on a brush and went over the contact heads, sprayed compressed air into every nook I could... I reset the e800 and... no problem. It synced right up.
For about 20 minutes. Then it spontaneously de-synced and I have not been able to establish a connection with the PC since. For the first few times I was getting the message "USB OVERCHARGE DETECTED" on the PPC. But now... nothing. The computer doesn't even detect the existence of the cradle.
Now the cradle will still charge the PPC, and it will turn the PPC on when you reseat the unit. But there is no communication between the two computers. Apart from sending the base and the e800 in for service (which from Japan is going to be one expensive bear) any body have any ideas what I should try first???
I have contacted both Toshiba Japan and Toshiba US and got no love from either one. Toshiba Japan doesn't know what an e800 is and even if they did they wouldn't touch it because it comes from the US. Toshiba US told me that they can only offer service to a US address (which means I'll have to third party it if it has to go in).
So... any ideas
Remember kids, be careful: the PPC you save may be your own.

[bkbroil]

I know B-Rad has some ideas of things to try..but I know he's off the site for the night....he'll probably give you some ideas in the morning..also, I PM'd you directly from my Toshiba...so if the typing is all off let me know I'll resend the message.
Don't worry, we'll get you all straightened out.

[kamikun]

BK- Got your note but figured I should also follow your advice about shouting out to the crew. I've still got my Casio E-2000 so I can go a little while without the e800. In fact, this may be the kick in the rear I needed to go ahead and make the change over to wm2003se.
Thanks again!

[Brad Isaac]

Hi,
My first thought on this is that you mentioned only a few drops of Diet Coke got between the contacts and the port. The first advantage of this is that it's DIET coke right? That illiminates sugar from the equation. The second advantage is that gravity probably is working to your advantage. i.e. it is better to have the cradle die than the PPC. Finally, the thought that your e800 was ruined by a few drops of diet coke seems impossible. The device itself was made to resist things like dampness, small stints in the rain, etc.
With that said, I have a theory and an idea on how you can fix it. I can't be held responsible for any damage that occurs, but if you want to try.. My theory is that you had more than a few drops seep into the cradle and it's shorted the circuitboard in the cradle. Not having a Tosh cradle in front of me you are going to have to eyeball the situation yourself. But basically, a torx-6 screwdriver is almost standard for working on PPC stuff so if you could find one of those to take the base apart. If not, sometimes a flathead jewler screwdriver will work.
This isn't too much brain surgery, so don't worry too much. The cradle itself looks ominous from the outside, but it amounts to a small circuitboard (estimated 2 inch by 3 inch) with the USB cable attached to it via it's internal wires (red, green, black, etc.) and a power plug. Anyway, you really don't need to worry about what wire goes where, because you aren't disconnecting anything. However, be gentle and remember how the cable is looped through the plastic (take a picture with a digital camera if you have one). Once you have everything apart, I am going to assume you have a damp or perhaps "gooey" circuitboard that needs to be cleaned. I'd use circuitboard cleaner from Radio Shack --- but since you are in Japan, it's hard to say what I'd use (at least in a public forum) but I would find something - windex, rubbing alcohol, something... Clean the board paying close attention to the DC power jack and the area surrounding it.
While the circuitboard is drying, clean the inside of the cradle really well.
Once absolutely dry, here's the fun part if there is a fun part. Once the internals are DRY (did I say dry? because if not, make sure it's dry), gently plug the circuitboard into your PPC and then gently take the cable and plug it into your USB port ONLY (DO NOT PLUG THE POWER IN). Make sure you aren't touching the circuitboard with your fingers or letting it touch metal. It should suspend rather well from your PPC itself.
If everything is cool, then you should get a connection. If so, immediately disconnect the cable from the computer FIRST and then disconnect the circuitboard from your PPC SECOND. Reassemble and you should be happy.
I have to run to a meeting right now, but this should get you started.
Brad

[jkendrick]

Brad, that's right on. I was going to suggest getting the Toshiba USB sync/charger and eliminate the cradle from the equation. I don't know if you can get one in Japan but I'd be willing to get one and ship it to you if not.
The sync/charger is very nice to have anyway and at least for a reasonable amount of money be able to replace the cradle if that's the problem.

[jkendrick]

I forgot to ask- does the e800 charge without the cradle? You can remove the AC plug and plug it directly into the e800 to see if that works. That will at least eliminate a problem with the e800.
On a totally different note- can you get a Sony U-70P in Japan? If so, how much is it? This is not important but if you've seen it I'm just curious.

[Hantra]

I would find something - windex, rubbing alcohol, something... Clean the board paying close attention to the DC power jack and the area surrounding it.

Also, after it's clean, hit it with some WD-40. Spray a light coat, wait a few minutes, and then wipe off the excess. This will ensure that there is no water, or cleaner left behind in the circuitry.
B

[jkendrick]

kamikun,
The Toshiba web site lists the retractable USB Power/sync cable for $19.00. It comes with a car adapter which makes this a very good deal. I have one and it's a total cradle replacement. They show it usually ships in 1 - 2 business days.
The link is here for you to check out:
Toshiba USB cable
I'm not pushing you just giving you options in the event the cradle is dead. Toshiba also has a non-retractable version of this same cable for $19.99 without the car adapter. A new cradle is about $50 and nobody (even Toshiba) has these in stock.
In the event you end up going several days without syncing then don't change any information on either your desktop or PPC. Just kidding.

[jkendrick]

One last thing to try if needed:
It may be that the overcharging message might result in the USB device not being recognized by the desktop. You might need to d/l the Toshiba PDA USB driver and install or just reinstall from the e800 CD.
Not likely but a possibility.

[kamikun]

Thanks for all the tips and support guys!
Let me try to attack this on a couple of different fronts. First the cradle does (or at least *did* - until I just finished hacking it apart) still charge the e800. That's what I was saying, when you seat the unit the base lights up and powers the battery and the unit itself will switch on automatically... but there is no connection between the pc and the ppc.
Do the e400 and e800 use the same sync connector? The e400 is for sale here (although I would have to travel over to Osaka to find a store that carries it) and I assume that Toshiba may sell seperate cradles or sync cables for the Genio e400. Would that fit with the e800? If so, I could buy an e400 cradle and/or cable and the immediate problem might be solved.
Now, I've popped open the cradle and here's what I've found. I was right about just a couple of drops of diet coke going in there. There is no residue anywhere on the inside and definately none in or on the circuit board. That's the good news. The bad news is that those 1 or two 2 drops went right into (I mean Luke Skywalker - right down into the secondary exhaust port - kind of targeting) the mouth of the teeny little connector. An examination of the other end of the connector produced this horror: The flat orange cable that runs between the circuit board and the connector is attached to the connector through a series of metal contacts at the base of the connector. Between three of these metal connectors there was some serious "carbon scoring."
Diet coke may be sugar free but it's still got carbs that your body burns for energy... looks like PPCs do too. That and acids.
I've swabbed it as well as I can with a Q-tip coated with lens cleaner. The Q-tip came out with a lot of black/grey stuff.
OK, I'm really having to squint but here's what I can see. It looks like the connector teeth that run just above the scored connectors are disconnected from the leads on the orange ribbon. If I had a magnifying glass I could confirm this but it looks like the leads have been eaten away from the ribbon.
If that's really the case this is a physical problem that no amount of cleaning is going to solve.
So... I'll try to reconnect as soon as everything dries but it looks, at the very least, as if I'm going to have to get a new cradle.
So the question stands... are the e400 and e800 cradles compatible? If not the cradles how about sync cables?
Thanks again guys. Waiting to hear back from you to figure out what step to take next.

[jkendrick]

Good news for you- e400 and e800 connectors and cables are identical.

[kamikun]

Originally Posted by jkendrick

Brad, that's right on. I was going to suggest getting the Toshiba USB sync/charger and eliminate the cradle from the equation. I don't know if you can get one in Japan but I'd be willing to get one and ship it to you if not.
The sync/charger is very nice to have anyway and at least for a reasonable amount of money be able to replace the cradle if that's the problem.

JK - This is one hell of a group of users. Thank you very much for the offer. I'm thinking this is going to have to be the route to follow. I've been thinking about getting the extended battery pack and a replacement battery... looks like now might be the time.
I'm gonna try to reconnect the device but I don't think it's going to happen. I'll keep you guys posted.

[kamikun]

Originally Posted by jkendrick

Good news for you- e400 and e800 connectors and cables are identical.

That's seriously good news! Now just to see if I can tack one down in the southern half of the country!

[jkendrick]

Originally Posted by kamikun

That's seriously good news! Now just to see if I can tack one down in the southern half of the country!

Note: the cradle is in fact compatible with the e400 too.

[kamikun]

OK Serious props to all you guys for taking the time and effort to offer your help, ideas and support. I hope I can return the favor.
But.. she's dead, Jim. Two of the pins had been eaten away on the connector.
I'll probably try to buy a cable from the US as well to cover my bases.
Thanks again everyone!!

[jkendrick]

Too bad. I wonder if Pepsi would have been so corrosive.

[Brad Isaac]

No bashing Pepsi on this site. Had it been a Pepsi spilled on the unit his throughput and syncing would have been improved!!

[Brad Isaac]

Originally Posted by kamikun

OK Serious props to all you guys for taking the time and effort to offer your help, ideas and support. I hope I can return the favor.
But.. she's dead, Jim. Two of the pins had been eaten away on the connector.

I am glad we could help and I am glad its just the cradle messed up cradles and cables are much easier to replace money-wise.

[kamikun]

And if it had been Mountain Dew then performance would have been...
ahem
exxXXXXXTTTTRRRREEEEEEEEEEEMMMM -*hack, cough

[jkendrick]

Originally Posted by Brad Isaac

No bashing Pepsi on this site. Had it been a Pepsi spilled on the unit his throughput and syncing would have been improved!!

Hey I wasn't bashing. Diet Pepsi is my beverage of choice, well, juvenile beverage.

[Brad Isaac]

Pepsi ONE over here for me. It rocks! As much as a diet beverage can rock anyway. 8)

[jkendrick]

Originally Posted by Brad Isaac

Pepsi ONE over here for me. It rocks! As much as a diet beverage can rock anyway. 8)

Is that sugar free? Hey, how OT can you get?

[kamikun]

After a little Googling I've found both a sync cable and cradle for the Genio e400. They "look" like the same thing on the Toshiba US site but there is no way to insure that they will actually work with the e800 without trying them.
They are also a lttle pricey: the ad for the sync cable does not mention anything about powering the unit in addition to syncing it. Could you take a quick look and see if this 'looks' like a typical power / sync unit? The price is about $50.
The cradle looks the same and, like JKendrick said, should fit both the e400 and e800. It comes in at $80.

[jkendrick]

Genio and e400/800 connectors are NOT the same and won't work. If you can find a cable for the e400 it should work.

[jkendrick]

Oops, my bad. I see the e400 is called a Genio in Japan. This cable is also available in the US and does not provide power. You need the retractable sync/charge cable.
Toshiba direct

[kamikun]

Originally Posted by jkendrick

Oops, my bad. I see the e400 is called a Genio in Japan. This cable is also available in the US and does not provide power. You need the retractable sync/charge cable.
Toshiba direct

Yea, I should've mentioned that Toshiba is still using the Genio brand name for all of their current PDAs here.
I cannot find the retractable sync cable anywhere. There's nothing on Toshiba's site and no mention of it at any of the major store websites... looks like that's gonna have to come from the US.

[jkendrick]

FWIW, I have one and use it exclusively to sync/charge my unit. Being able to charge in the car is a nice bonus.