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"Last year, Verizon received a lot of flak because the Bluetooth functionality on their version of the Motorola V710 phone was crippled. In effect, you couldn't use Bluetooth to make your mobile phone a wireless modem. Looks like they are up to it again with the new Treo 700w.
According to Mobile Pipeline, Verizon has disabled the Bluetooth dial-up networking capability that would enable the Treo 700w to act as a modem for laptops. That means subscribers who buy the Treo 700w and a $50 monthly subscription for EV-DO service on that device must purchase a second subscription for $60 monthly, plus an EV-DO card to access the Web using a laptop. Looks like Treo 700w are out of luck at the moment - please be aware of this if you are considering purchasing the phone."
I'm just shocked! (NOT!)
I know that some people abuse the network...using it like a DSL modem and keeping it on nearly all the time and downloading the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but there should be some bandwidth abilities for the legitimate users, who want to use their $600 phone that SHOULD be able to let them hook up to their computer. Maybe it's just me tho...
I always have an issue when a vendor claims a user "abuses" the network. Develop real world pricing plans and their can not be abuse. I thnk the true issue - selling multiple devices and multiple plans so the vendor can abuse the user.
I'm with you Keith. There should be a "bandwith allowance" with the purchase of a phone, and bandwith add-on packs in a reasonable price range for people who need to use more, instead of the extreme and outrageous pricing currently available!
Also, if their networks are so "frail" that having people jump on the "bandwidth bandwagon" will cause it to clog or crash, then they should build a better network!
When I got my Cingular Treo 650 last year, I discovered the same issue - Bluetooth DUN was disabled. However, over the Summer of 2005, probably due to complaints and the existence of a BT DUN hack, Cingular release a firmware update that enabled BT DUN connectivity. So I can now BT DUN via GPRS, but the reality is -- TOO SLOW!
However, even with EVDO supposedly being faster, consider thes points:
1) I recognized right away that I would never use BT DUN. I would sooner find a FREE WiFi hotspot or even Ethernet connection before trying this.
2) I am a "techie", and am willing to tinker around long enough to get this to work. The average corporate Marketing VP will NOT. Neither will a lawyer, CEO, doctor, etc. Don't forget you PC/laptop with need a BT adapter too!!
3) If you are technically savvy enough to buy/own/use a Treo (any version), than odds are you have either Internet access at work, or high-speed Internet at home. Why/when would you want to use BT DUN?
4) The majority of major hotels have Wifi and/or Ethernet Internet access. High speed Internet access is now ubiquitous. You could literally pickup free wifi access driving around town with your wifi laptop SOONER than setting up a BT DUN connection to the Internet.
5) One of the biggest benefits of a Treo (or even Blackberry) device is the ability to get your corporate/work email on your phone. Surfing the web on these devices is OK, but we REALLY got the GPRS plan to get our corporate email.
6) Verizon is kidding themselves by disabling BT DUN. A hack will pop up soon, people will use it, and they will be forced to allow BT DUN at no extra cost, or face the wrath of public outcry. They should just allow it any way, I highly doubt this will chew away at their precious (UNLIMITED SUPPLY OF) bandwidth. Then again, MONEY TALKS.
Again, even if EV-DO is significantly faster than GPRS, I can't envision when/where/why anyone would use their phone as a modem. It might sound "cool", but not so practical in the real business world.
Hence, thus, therfore, hitherto this is practically a NON-ISSUE.
I don't know if it's really a non-issue at all. I have spent a not insignificant time on some phone oriented message boards, and there are TONS of posts from people who get online with their phone as a modem and hit a P2P site and download movies and other high bandwidth items. Or other people who use their phone as their primary modem to get online at all. (I couldn't imagine it myself...)
Your example of corporate use is probably fairly accurate in that a Veep of something or other is not likely to have the patience or inclination to have to "tinker" to get online and that email is their biggest concern.
I think the reactionary position of the telcoms is going to bite them in the ass before too long tho. The idea of cities becoming a big wifi hotspot is catching on...add a bit to everyone's utility bill, and give free wifi access. Not a bad idea, but it's one that is making the telcoms cry FOUL. Look at the price of broadband - it used to be in the $80 a month range, which is why so many people were slower to jump on. As competition went up, prices went down. If they are faced with free wifi access all over (I can only hope!) then the prices will come down for tethering as well. It might just take awhile.
I hate making assumptions, but this one is probably accurate.
I would gather anyone using BT DUN on a REGULAR BASIS to download large files is NOT in the majority.
This is why I think Verizon is silly for disabling BT DUN right off the bat.
If you want to sit in a park on a nice day, with your laptop and EVDO BT DUN enabled phone and download the Quake 4 demo or whatever, you are truly a GEEK. Please do not take offense, if this is you; be proud!
If you want to conduct business or get work done, you will not connect to your corporate network this way. Some might try, but most would wait until they can get a solid reliable connection.
Just because you can do it, doesn't necessarily mean you should. Again, this is an idea that sounds "cool", so those who think this way will try it.
Good luck
Can you use the included USB cable to turn it into a broadband modem?
Great question. The answer is yes. In fact, I just posted news about PdaNet, software designed to get you connected with ease. Check it out here: http://www.junefabrics.com/pdanet/
-Tim
"Last year, Verizon received a lot of flak because the Bluetooth functionality on their version of the Motorola V710 phone was crippled. In effect, you couldn't use Bluetooth to make your mobile phone a wireless modem."
I know this isn't your quote, but I don't believe that's true. I have had two Motorola V710s (one with the old firmware, one with the new firmware) and I can do Bluetooth DUN on my iPAQ and Mobile Crossing WayPoint just fine.
Verizon also got more than "flak"; they got a class action lawsuit. I have the settlement paperwork sitting here at home.
What Verizon got sued for was disabling OBEX. The claim was that Verizon said the V710 had Bluetooth, which lead people to believe it had a full set of profiles, which it didn't. You'll notice now that Verizon puts an asterisk next to Bluetooth support on their Web site and specifies what profiles are supported (usually just headset and handsfree).
Steve
Sorry, but many of your points are just (to me) wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
1) I recognized right away that I would never use BT DUN. I would sooner find a FREE WiFi hotspot or even Ethernet connection before trying this.
Why? WiFi has limited range and Ethernet jacks aren't easy to find outside of home, work and maybe hotels. If you always have your laptop with you, the Treo could give you many more places to get your laptop online.
Why pay Starbucks or the airport for their WiFi service when you can connect with Bluetooth at EV-DO speeds?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
2) I am a "techie", and am willing to tinker around long enough to get this to work. The average corporate Marketing VP will NOT. Neither will a lawyer, CEO, doctor, etc. Don't forget you PC/laptop with need a BT adapter too!!
Compact Flash and USB Bluetooth adapters are easy to find, and usually cheap (under $50). If a lawyer, VP or CEO can't set up the connection, they'll get someone in their IT staff to do it (doctors may not have an IT staff, but I bet they have somebody who set up their office computers). Once the devices are bonded and setup, there's not too much to do to connect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
3) If you are technically savvy enough to buy/own/use a Treo (any version), than odds are you have either Internet access at work, or high-speed Internet at home. Why/when would you want to use BT DUN?
See Point #1. Believe it or not, people go more places than home and work. If you only used the Internet at home or work, why even bother with a Treo?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
4) The majority of major hotels have Wifi and/or Ethernet Internet access. High speed Internet access is now ubiquitous. You could literally pickup free wifi access driving around town with your wifi laptop SOONER than setting up a BT DUN connection to the Internet.
See Point #1 and #3. However, if you've already got your devices paired and setup to connect, I think a Bluetooth connection is easier than many WiFi or Ethernet connections at hotels (especially if you need to set up a subscription or have an older laptop without a zero-configuration system).
For example, I was at Panera Bread having lunch and wanted to connect my iPAQ 5550 to their free WiFi service. I'm a techie (20+ years as a software developer, using PCs since 1980, set up my own home network, etc.) and couldn't connect. Maybe their service didn't work well with Pocket Internet Explorer, but I eventually gave up and connected using Bluetooth DUN on my Motorola V710.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
5) One of the biggest benefits of a Treo (or even Blackberry) device is the ability to get your corporate/work email on your phone. Surfing the web on these devices is OK, but we REALLY got the GPRS plan to get our corporate email.
EV-DO is faster than GPRS. While I agree that many people get these devices just for E-mail, once they have them, there's a lot more they can do. If you have your laptop with you, and time to boot up, why would you choose to use a PDA's small screen instead of a nice full-size screen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
6) Verizon is kidding themselves by disabling BT DUN. A hack will pop up soon, people will use it, and they will be forced to allow BT DUN at no extra cost, or face the wrath of public outcry. They should just allow it any way, I highly doubt this will chew away at their precious (UNLIMITED SUPPLY OF) bandwidth. Then again, MONEY TALKS.
I agree with you here, but Verizon has faced the outcry (and the class action suits), but continues to disable some Bluetooth profiles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
Again, even if EV-DO is significantly faster than GPRS, I can't envision when/where/why anyone would use their phone as a modem. It might sound "cool", but not so practical in the real business world.
See the above points. Can you still not see why anyone might want to connect using DUN? Perhaps what you said is true for you, but don't generalize that to the rest of us. Maybe your vision is just more limited than ours.
Steve
Pony,
I respect your opinion and see many of your points. However, I must point point out that my comments stem from 10 years experience in the corporate world, which tend to spill out into the real world.
Allow me to reply to some of your statements:
"If you always have your laptop with you..."
...you need a LOOOONG vacation away from a computer!! (seriously)
That's a huge IF. I don't have the numbers to back this up, but something tells me that people who always have their laptop with them are a) NOT in the majority, and b) most likely on the road alot.
ALL of the users that we gave Treos to have dumped their laptops on road trips of less than a few days. They like to travel light. Email is their killer app.
"why would you choose to use a PDA's small screen instead of a nice full-size screen?"
How about because you don't want to lug around that "nice, full screen"? How about because "EVDO is faster" and you can get to the web page faster via your phone directly, than setting up a BT DUN connection?
"Why pay Starbucks or the airport for their WiFi service when you can connect with Bluetooth at EV-DO speeds?"
Why NOT pay for this once or twice a month, or only when needed? Why pay Verizon? EVDO is not EVERYWHERE, despite their promises.
"Once the devices are bonded and setup..."
You cannot state this 100% of the time. Things tend to get "out of whack" over time. Again, end-users don't have the time or inclination to tinker.
"people go more places than home and work"
True. But where do you spend most of your time? I guess this is a matter of personal lifestyle, but is it absolutely necessary (LIFE or DEATH) that a person have a nearby Internet connection at all times?? Whatever happened to using your phone to make a phone call?
Lastly, I can whole-heartedly agree that this is all just a matter of OPINION. I think many of YOUR (pony) points are valid too.
My points are based on my experiences. However, it is my personal view that BT DUN is more of a novelty, than a bonafide business solution.
m 8)
I'm reordering things a bit below to make a point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
ALL of the users that we gave Treos to have dumped their laptops on road trips of less than a few days. They like to travel light. Email is their killer app.
...
"Why pay Starbucks or the airport for their WiFi service when you can connect with Bluetooth at EV-DO speeds?"
Why NOT pay for this once or twice a month, or only when needed? Why pay Verizon? EVDO is not EVERYWHERE, despite their promises.
Have you noticed you're arguing both sides of the fence here? If you give people Treos to get E-mail, aren't you already paying Verizon for access? If (I know, "if") the person does have their laptop at the airport or Starbucks, why would they pay to use WiFi? While EV-DO isn't everywhere, it's likely in most large airports, isn't it?
Also, while I'll accept people won't take their laptops for short trips, what about people who do travel all the time? What about people who need to access the corporate intranet (does it render well on a PDA screen)? While those users may not be in the majority, do you doubt they may find Bluetooth DUN more than a mere "novelty"?
Don't get me wrong, I understand that people don't want to lug a laptop everywhere. I bought a GPS system for my old laptop but only used it once because it was such a hassle to use (having to carry the laptop to the car, taking up a seat to use it, worrying whether I should leave it on the seat when I got where I was going or whether I should lug it in with me, etc.). That's why I got a GPS program for my iPAQ.
However, I do find times that having my laptop with me makes a lot of sense. For example, at one company I worked for, we had to train companies in Abu Dhabi and Pune, India, how our software worked. I took my laptop with me for the two-week trip and it made sense (all of the software was on my system, the companies I was going to didn't have to configure PCs for me, etc.).
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
"why would you choose to use a PDA's small screen instead of a nice full-size screen?"
How about because you don't want to lug around that "nice, full screen"? How about because "EVDO is faster" and you can get to the web page faster via your phone directly, than setting up a BT DUN connection?
Getting to a Web page is only part of the process -- you still have to read the page. While some pages render fine on a PDA, many will require horizontal scrolling. I bet the time taken to read those pages makes any savings from faster loading moot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
"people go more places than home and work"
True. But where do you spend most of your time? I guess this is a matter of personal lifestyle, but is it absolutely necessary (LIFE or DEATH) that a person have a nearby Internet connection at all times?? Whatever happened to using your phone to make a phone call?
Those points are true, but completely irrelevant to the issue. If you don't need an Internet connection, why bother getting a Treo? If you just want to make phone calls, just get a basic cell phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamcse924
My points are based on my experiences. However, it is my personal view that BT DUN is more of a novelty, than a bonafide business solution.
See, that's the part I object to. Calling it a "novelty" is being dismissive. The singing bass is a novelty.
If you had said you didn't think many people would find it useful, that would be one thing, but saying "I can't envision when/where/why anyone would use their phone as a modem" sounds like you don't find it possible that anybody might find it useful ever. I've told you about times that I've personally found it useful (checking sports scores while shopping, for example). It might not be life and death, but it made my life a bit more enjoyable by being able to do that. Isn't that worthwhile?
However, based on your comments in the Bluetooth headset thread, I'm starting to wonder if you think Bluetooth itself is more of a gimmick than a useful technology. If that's the case, it wold certainly make sense that you would find Bluetooth DUN a novelty.
Steve
Again, from my perspective, within the corporate environment, I don't see BT DUN as a credible solution.
100% of our traveling users rely on Ethernet and WIFI, and they are happy with those two options. Many are former POTS DUN users (the dark ages).
Do what YOU want with BT DUN. Pay for multiple methods to get to the Internet, if you have money to burn. Surf the web at a public toilet. Open your laptop at your library. Surf the web at KFC!!! I won't stop ya'!!!
I guess our little argument here boils down to whether or not BT DUN is significant enough to fulfill a personal need. With so many options, I don't think so. You think it does, and that is true for you. And for the record...
I DON'T THINK MANY PEOPLE WILL FIND BT DUN USEFUL.
By the way, not everybody that has a Treo uses it to surf the web or get email. Of course, the vendors would rather you BUY the data functionality. But, the Treo is still a kick-ass stand alone PDA and phone, even without the data package.
As far as my experiences with BT technology, I sync via BT (Treo and PPC) and have printed via BT, and I like it. The BT Headset thing just wasn't for me, it was kind of a novelty (ooops!). But I think I will eventually have a PAN at home. Might be time for that BT mouse and keyboard!!!
m
8)
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